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Thread: is this legal?

  1. #1
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    Cool is this legal?

    i came across a situation that i really have never seen or done before but one of my buddies told me another friend did this and i'm wondering what the rule is. if someone plays safe on you and you are hooked and the 9 ball (or any other ball) is sitting for an easy combination shot to win the game and you are afraid that if you kick and and hit the lowest numbered ball you're still going to lose. so you go up and purposely foul and hit the 9 ball away with your cue stick to take away the combo. should you replace the 9 ball as best as you can to its original position and take ball in hand anyways or should it be a loss of game? i think you should take ball in hand and replace the object ball as close back to where you think it was and maybe if you do it again as a second foul later on you should then lose the game after a warning has been givin to you not to do it. that's just my thoughts about it. anyone know what really happens or atleast should happen?
    don't take any shot for granted...that's how you can easily blow run outs :-)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: is this legal?

    deleted...
    Last edited by PoolDad; 12-14-2007 at 04:45 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: is this legal?

    Two different things....

    What PoolDad said it's o.k. because you shoot at the 9 ball with the cue ball BUT moving the 9 with the stick is just wrong!!! If I was a referee and this would come up then I would call for an UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT (rule 2.28) in this case I would call of a lost of game (rack) and give a warning to the player and if it'll happen again then I will disqualify the player from the event.
    " A BAD NIGHT OF POOL IS BETTER THEN A GOOD DAY AT WORK "
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  4. #4
    KJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: is this legal?

    I don't have my rule book in front of me right now but I'm familiar with the rule itself. In this case, hitting the 9 with the butt of the cue to take it out of harms way is a forfeiture of the game. If it happens twice, it's forfeiture of the match.

    The hooked player, knowing he's going to give up ball in hand anyway, would be smart to shoot AT the 9 in an attempt to tie it up somewhere. His opponent will of course have ball in hand but it will now be more difficult for the opponent to get out.
    At Your Service,
    KJ

  5. #5
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    Default Re: is this legal?

    it also depends if you guys are playing in a tournament or not. I know in cash games in my area, it's legal. you can even shoot the 9 ball in on purpose.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: is this legal?

    yeh i thought it should be a loss of game or at minimum you should have to put it back in place and have it be a foul. i do like the rule about unsportsman like conduct though, because that is just childish IMO so atleast i know what should happen now. about shooting the 9 ball in on purpose, of course u can with the cb contacting it first and not the cue stick hitting the 9 in. one more rule question, i did this in a tournament once and felt like an ass afterwards but the moron i was playing did not say it loud enough for me to hear. after his break he didn't have a shot at the lowest numbered ball so i guess he called a push, which is perfectly fine but i wasn't paying as close attention as i should have been and i noticed he didn't hit the ball and it was just a reaction that i grabbed the cb as it was ball in hand and he's like " what are you doing, i called a push" i'm like oh i'm sorry dude i didn't hear you say that. i was wondering what should happen, if it should be ball in hand for him (which a ref. called that to be the rule after we all discussed it) or if i should be able to put it back where we thought it was after the push out and let me play it from there or give it back. my biggest problem was that he didn't say it nearly loud enough for me to hear which rather pissed me off.
    don't take any shot for granted...that's how you can easily blow run outs :-)

  7. #7

    Default Re: is this legal?

    Well.... there are two sides to this and from what I understand the two of you are to blame....
    on one hand if there is no referee presiding over the match then you are the referee so you need to pay attention more closely... on the other hand it's the shooter responsibility to make sure that the referee (you in this case) is aware that a push was called.
    If I was asked to resolve this dispute then I would call for a re-rack and the player that broke has the break.

    From my experience (and I guess from yours as well...) besides of paying more attention to the match I always make sure if a foul occurred before I pick up the cue ball, either I declare a foul or if I wasn't paying attention then I would ask if it's a foul...

    If a referee was presiding over the match then he/she should have called a push out so you can hear it or called a foul if a foul was committed and should have picked up the cue ball and handed it to the next player.

    BTW if you play without a referee and after a foul the cue ball ends up frozen to another ball or in a middle of a cluster or any other tight spot you better ask your opponent to hand you the CB because if while picking up the cue ball you move another ball a foul can be called....
    " A BAD NIGHT OF POOL IS BETTER THEN A GOOD DAY AT WORK "
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: is this legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by skor View Post
    BTW if you play without a referee and after a foul the cue ball ends up frozen to another ball or in a middle of a cluster or any other tight spot you better ask your opponent to hand you the CB because if while picking up the cue ball you move another ball a foul can be called....
    I really need to keep a BCA rule book here at the house for the purpose of quoting 'chapter & verse' specifically as it reads in the rules.


    Once a player has completed his/her turn at the table, when all balls have stopped moving, his shot is over. He is in no way obliged to pick-up the QB and hand it to the incoming player. That's actually a very foolish thing to do. It's the obligation of the incoming player to pick-up HIS QB and to do so without touching another ball, which would be a foul on his part. Why would I want to remove the chance of the incoming player committing a foul? He's under the same obligation when placing HIS QB as well.

    I see league players picking up the QB and handing it to the incoming player all the time. I just consider it to be a lack of knowledge & experience on their part.
    At Your Service,
    KJ

  9. #9
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    Angry Re: is this legal?

    yeh i agree with you skor, i know i should have been paying more attention but i didn't and i made a mistake was all. i understand that what you're saying is right and next time, especially during a tourny i'll try and pay closer attention. i was curious about this too... if you have committed 2 consecutive fouls and you're opponent does not tell you that you have 2 fouls right after the second one was committed or atleast before you shoot your next shot and you commit a third foul in a row, then they tell you that you just 3 fouled and you argue with them that you didn't, what should happen? i've always been told you have to tell your opponent when they are on 2, it's just a sportsmanlike thing to do to resolve any problems. i know how some people can be while playing pool against them so i figured i'd ask. case and point about how unsportsmanlike people can get... during the end of this past springs session for our local APA, many teams were up to a pool hall competing against other districts to see which teams were heading to vegas for 8 ball. while i was watching another match next to my teams i noticed this huge argument and ordeal going on. the thing that happened was this person was on the 8 ball ( maybe had ball in hand, i don't remember for sure) but anyways, the 8 ball was about 3-6 inches away from the corner pocket and the girl forgot to mark her pocket and the other team didn't tell her to and her teammates probably forgot to. so they wait until she obviously makes the shot and then proceeded to tell her she lost the game due to not marking the pocket but the other team was curtious enough before this to tell that same opposing team to mark their pocket on an 8 ball. that is just low and a very unsportsmanlike. yes is it the rules that you have to mark the pocket but seriously that's just unreal i think.
    don't take any shot for granted...that's how you can easily blow run outs :-)

  10. #10

    Default Re: is this legal?

    I am an ex-APA player. Was shooting on a Busch Series league and was shooting week 16. I had been undefeated going in to my last game that evening playing the opposing teams best player. I was 105 for 105. The last rack I hade broke and didn't pocket. My opponent had missed on his turn. I then proceeded to run the table and when I was at the 8-ball, the pocket was marked. I called my shot, sank the 8-ball and was then told I had lost the game due to not touching the marker on the pocket. The captains began arguing over this, and finally had called the head of our league who then ruled that I lost the game for not going to the marker and physicaly touching it to mark the pocket.

    I have always thought that this was a ridiculous call, and actually walked away from the game for 10 years. Selling everything I had the very next day, and passing on a sponsored 8-ball tourney in the Bahamas. Hence the reason I had joined this league to qualify to play.

    I was recently talking with a local Pool Hall owner and he told me that the ruling was bogus and I should have been deemed the winner. Can anyone tell the according to the rulebook, what the correct ruling should have been?This took place in the late spring of 2000, if that helps of the rules at that time.

    ........

    On the original topic, there is a shot that had a write-up in billiards digest many years back. It was called an unsportsmanlike shot, however other than losing your turn, and giving ball in hand(if that is the ruleset you are using), it was perfectly legal. Just basically a frowned upon thing to do by many shooters. However, if you are in a fix, and willing to shoot something like that, at that time it was deemed legal to do.

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